Saturday - 14-6

ye, we played a few games and such.

so first game vs 3 smite monks and 1 woh kid. shin walks around like an headless chicken while the rest dies in chokepoint. we party wipe twice till i solo their runner. to bad i died to death pact so runner was lucky QQ. then me and another war goes rambo on their runner and he dies so we get morale and we then kill their woh on split and kill their main team 6vs6 cause their woh aint there. then timekill their woh who ressed and get more morales and we wipe again cause ogden points his staff into our monks rubby faces. we win with never ending morale streams.

then i eat

then i came back

then we played more games and won a few.

first is versus a retarded sinsplit big spike damage from mind shock. since people have hearing troubles they die a lot. they die too, cause legless and me solo them all while going defensive split (was meant to be 5 ppl...).. then we play more minutes and our runner goes swimming in tar and our npc's dies to bad assassins. we do bigger damage on their lord so they didnt know what to do and perma frenzy died 28 more minutes. they gave us sightseeing classes in our own freaking hall to extend their lifecycle, futile atempt. we win cus tiebreak. waste of time.

next versus axe who we beated before, so we do it again... sadly it took us 28 minutes so we are bad. they try an end split and our me/e diegio has hearing problems so they go rambo with 4 guys to 2 of ours and do big damage on our lord. shin is strong ranger and dshot them all to reduce big damage to lesser big damage. mean while in another tyrian empire, axe own guild hall whiskey was frenzy wanding their lord and did bigger damage then they did on our lord. so we win.

and lose a few. epically l'ancest thinks you cant partyheal while carrying a flag.. for 2 minutes long while under pressure.

and then won again against more sinshitters with retarded amount of eles. but we geust gut prot so nothing dies. i failed at pblocking (afterwards i practiced in ra and now guardian can ranger, i mes. i leet mes, you bad mes, i pblock fireball on recharge). so the match takes 28 minutes cus they have wep warding, blind spam and hex breaker while i can only spam divertion on mes. so we winz with tiebreak even tho we where winning 28 minutes and they should have resigned at 5. waste of time.

specially written for alex so he can understand we do better without him. the 2 loses are still your faulth.

Thanks for this report : I'm not sure we'll be able to use it to improve our team play : to not make the same mistakes twice, finetune the response of the team to the way our leads (Valence and Alex) want the team to work together.
For exemple : - in case opposite team splits us, do you prefer to let the maximum "firepower" in our attack team to wipe them all or do you generally like to send back offensive to make them back but cause the attack team to hold on. Generally its not the flag runner who decides this because he doesn't know how thing are going in the attack team. If you need the flag runner to lead the team and call who and what he wants players to do in case we are splitted, this must be clarified.
- The same kind of problem can arise while we want to delay the adversaries flag runner. We have to learn to play together (bodyblocks - flag interception when they pass it - snares - frontline calls).
- there was another important thing involving flag runner to set but I forgot it. I'll write it down here later.

When coming down to split, the only thing that really matters imo is the reaction time: the faster, the better.

Just call for what you need and we'll see if it's doable.

ps: your reports are worth nothing val, there's no pic included.

OK to do like this next time.
Note that the attack team is usually the first to see which ennemies are splitting and, if we want to be efficient, it is its task to warn the runner about this and the leader has to send appropriate support regarding the threat they are facing. From what I saw in the games I played with Yumy, it's very seldom done.
There are special conditions, though, where it's the runner task alone to ask for reinforcements :
- when everybody is everywhere : facing byob on frozen for exemple. Their is no real attack team so the best position to know what is at the base is the base itself
- the main team is at the flag stand and killed adversaries after base rez-ing are attacking our base from behind : the runner has to be aware about this.
When the runner selects whose support he needs : the way I'm used to do while facing real threat (most of the offensive force of the ennemies) is to send the heal monk at the base and let our whole team whipe the ennemy base. It is a bit more complicated when there is, for exemple one Mesmer, one warior and a Rt attacking us. Whichever combination we send to support the runner at the base will force the attack team to withdraw from the enemy base (if they where in) so I'm wondering if we shouldn't send massive offensive characters in our base to whipe them. This, the Rt can't command : it must be the leader to organize this.

asking woh back is suicide for the main team. rc can't do much on its own.

opponent have dual eles and they are hard to interrupt (aka ranger cannot get line of sight on them), this is the case you want the woh back, mainly for prot spirit and the fact he can outheal the shatterstones even when they split and are on multiple archers. in that case the rc is alone and will die, the flagger needs to be with him unless they have a split going beyond the 2 shatter eles. if you need monk support, you take the rc. a rit can heal enough pressure while having the rc with him.

i expect the runner to be able to call back what is needed, especially on maps like frozen/wurms. i expect every single guy in the team knowing 24/7 where they belong, aka a me/e bitchguy knows his positioning according to the enemy warriors. i have no problem having a guy in the team who keeps the general idea where people should be, though i find it more important he says what is going to happen (fall back, push for flagger etc.).

when judging how to split, always split to win, unless their stand team is wiping in which case you rawr style stall them with usually the ranger.

thing is, what really botters me. if they split something it takes you a near minute to finish your sentence.

With MoFo, we used to split like I proposed (WoH backing because the Rt has weapon of warding and I carry weapon of shadow) when facing real threat at the base (meaning the main team had mainly to deal with NPC pressure) : the prot could really hold the whole main team on its own. It was tested at top 300 many times with success. We had these kind of situations (2W, R & Rt attacking us) in the games we played together.
But, as you just said, things depend on what we exactly have in front of us, which the leader in the main team has a good position (except on wurms and frozen as we both said) to estimate.
What I'll do next time, if needed, is to ask for monk and the leader will decide which one he needs in the main team.
After that another important point is to define is if you like the idea to punish a split by backing offensive. Usually splitting team have only a Rt with then so they are quiet easy to punish : you make the PB mes a damage dealer back and it is game over for their split team : it is not the runner role to decide this.

PS : runner is not my main profession (see my signature) - but I want to practice it becaus eI like it - and I'm not used to play in english AND neither with Yumy : I'm sure you'll understand that I need a little time to learn how to deal with all these new circumstances . I'll try to be more concise next time :

One more thing : I don't really dare asking for double flag but, if it was my only decision, I would use this technique at the very start of the game and each time we don't have a flag in advance (in that, I mean we can put the flag at the stand immediately after the enemy). I find it gives us a big advantage over the enemy at little cost : it enables the runner to stay much longer with the main team to assist with damage and heal/prot, prevents us from giving a boost to the enemy (even if we have to back a little in NPC) and creates the good conditions to obtain a boost.
Since this kind of initiative hinders a little the main team in its action it has to be discussed before.

l'ancestre wrote:

Usually splitting team have only a Rt with then so they are quiet easy to punish : you make the PB mes a damage dealer back and it is game over for their split team

There prolly will be a ranger on the spit, so unless the mesmer is running distortion, he can only rely on his interrupts to shutdown. You could fake cast for sure, but i really prefer the versatility the ranger brings in in splits situations. Degen, fast recharging interrupts, dshot, and snares. Though i agree, we shouldnt be afraid to split with the mesmer if we really need to (when facing a ff nec for example)


As for double flagging, im not a big fan of playing the flag right at the beginning of a match. I really prefer us to try to 8v8 them and see what happens. Though once again, we shouldnt hesitate to resort to double flagrunning when its needed (late on flag, to prepare a split, cause someone is useless somewhere...)


Oh and last but not least:

Quote :

runner is not my main profession (see my signature)

your sig is in french for the first part :p

Just Alex wrote:

l'ancestre wrote:

you make the PB mes a damage dealer back

There prolly will be a ranger on the spit, so unless the mesmer is running distortion, he can only rely on his interrupts to shutdown.

A PB on a Rt casting kaolai or weapon of warding doesn't need a pgm Mes and deprives the whole splitting team of any heal during 15". I think the conclusion is clear.

ye, they crip ur war and/or hammer it down, while having no other damage cus ur war cant do shit. ranger>mes on split, ask mes after ranger is thar and you need it.

only some special cases you want it.

Ranger does more direct damage than the domination mesmer : this, I agree with you. Nothing else. Maybe we'll talk about this on vent, I don't have time now.